July 8: Keyword - Structure!
Last Sunday on Dogs and Goddesses - Krissie had computer problems, so Jenny and I got together to chat, mostly about the structure of the first act and how Daisy’s scene needs to come out. Enjoy!
Jenny C. So, Mesopotamia.
Lani D. So, Mesopotamia.
Lani D. Where’s Krissie?
Jenny C. I think Krissie either forgot or she’s still struggling with her computer.
Jenny C. I’ve got roughs of Shar’s five first act scenes so that I can tell my self her first act story.
Jenny C. And that helped.
Lani D. That’s great.
Jenny C. That’s all I’m going to do with Shar for awhile then, once I get those rewritten.
Lani D. I have an idea in my head, but now that Daisy works for Tallie, I need to rethink a bit.
Jenny C. Then there are three Kami scenes.
Jenny C. You know, she doesn’t have to work for Tallie.
Jenny C. I mean why would Chaos work for Life?
Lani D. I’m not sure. I know I want that scene to be her and Tallie.
Lani D. I don’t want to introduce another character.
Jenny C. I think that’s a great idea
Jenny C. Just don’t hem yourself in.
Jenny C. Well, it’s so efficient if she’s working for her, too.
Jenny C. Or maybe with her?
Lani D. Yeah. Sometimes I have to take a step back and check it from all angles. I change one thing and don’t realize there’s other stuff I can change, too.
Jenny C. If she’s in the next cubicle or whatever?
Lani D. Maybe she’s in the next cubicle.
Lani D. Originally, I was going to have Daisy get fired.
Lani D. But I’m not sure she needs to.
Jenny C. That’s what I realized when I looked at all five of Shar’s scenes together.
Lani D. So that’s why I was thinking, Tallie’s the boss to fire her.
Lani D. But maybe I don’t need all that.
Jenny C. It’s a good strong punch but it might come too early?
Jenny C. Maybe second act as she embraces chaos
Lani D. I need to figure out what I want from Daisy in that scene, what needs to happen to her. It’s Chaos, breaking pencils, etc.
Lani D. Maybe Tallie’s just making her nuts and instead of keeping it under control, pencils break, Daisy yells, but feels good - release.
Jenny C. I don’t see anybody firing Daisy because she has one bad day.
Lani D. Well, yeah - I had this whole ex-boyfriend thing originally, but it’s not where I want to go, not what I need to do.
Jenny C. But if in the second act, she starts to revolt, embrace chaos, she could do a “mad as hell and won’t take it any more” and get herself fired and feel free and then get slapped with X’s death.
Lani D. It’s after the Kool-Aid, so Daisy needs to have some residual New Daisy-ness at work.
Jenny C. The thing I have to keep remembering is THE ROMANCE.
Jenny C. and THE FRIENDSHIP.
Jenny C. Everything else is just plot glue.
Lani D. Well, Daisy’s so happy in the second act that X’s death is really going to knock her back.
Lani D. Right.
Jenny C. So every scene for me has to be Shar and Sam or Shar and the girls.
Jenny C. I don’t know why it’s so hard for me to hold on to the romance.
Jenny C. It’s good getting feedback on the blog. I think they’re giving good advice in general. I thought Krissie got good feedback.
Lani D. It’s hard. There’s so much here that it’s hard to focus sometimes.
Lani D. Oh, yeah. I read the scene, but by the time I did, everyone had already said everything I’d thought of, so I kept quiet.
Lani D. But yeah - it’s nice having it out there.
Lani D. I think we’ve got some sharp readers.
Jenny C. Well, there’s the parallel between them accepting their power and them accepting themselves (that doesn’t sound right) but essentially once they feel powerful then they’re ready for relationships? Maybe?
Lani D. At the point where Daisy’s in that scene, I think it’s the “you can’t go home again” thing.
Lani D. I mean, work has been her escape.
Jenny C. Which scene.
Lani D. She loves the predictability of it.
Lani D. Maybe she starts to get bored?
Lani D. The next day at work. With Tallie.
Jenny C. Daisy’s third scene.
Jenny C. Right. She’s worked hard to make it predictable and then she drinks the Kool-aid and thinks, “Not this.”
Lani D. Yeah.
Lani D. I think she starts to feel restless.
Lani D. And her whole life has been about the predictability of the code, how she can resolve everything.
Lani D. But then she has the Kool-Aid and the great piggyback ride and she connects with Bailey and then when she goes back…
Lani D. I don’t know.
Jenny C. I was trying to figure out Shar’s character arc in each scene.
Lani D. There needs to be something there that feeds into that evening, when she completely gives in with Jamie.
Jenny C. Actually diagramming it out, and it wasn’t as clear cut as I thought.
Lani D. Oh, neat. What’d you come up with?
Jenny C. I put it on the blog. If you can open another window and look at it, maybe we can brainstorm both Daisy and Shar’s.
Lani D. OH - wait, yeah, duh, I looked at that. Let me pull it up.
Jenny C. Basically, I labeled each scene with protag vs. antag, which I know you don’t do, so skip that.
Jenny C. And then I tried to figure out where she started and ended.
Lani D. The heat in the kitchen - I like that.
Jenny C. And I think she has to start mad as hell about that taser.
Jenny C. But repressing it because it’s illogical
Jenny C. And because screaming at Ray would be a finish.
Lani D. Wait - she’s mad about the taser?
Jenny C.
I haven’t got it yet, but there’s something in there about her feeling that she deserves more but not admitting it, and then drinking the Kool-aid and starting to take more–lusting after Sam and thinking she deserves him and then attaching to Abby an Daisy.
Lani D.
I think I might have missed your latest revision - I thought Ray was taking the television.
Jenny C.
He was, but he gave her the taser.
Jenny C.
She wanted commitment and he gave her a taser.
Jenny C. Which is not on the page.
Jenny C. I’m trying to figure out what that damn taser means.
Lani D. Yeah, I know he gave her the taser - oh, okay.
Jenny C. Ray gives it to her and makes her mad.
Lani D. The taser means “do it yourself.
Jenny C. And then she uses it on Sam to get rid of Mesopotamian History.
Jenny C. So there’ll be a third beat of it, God know what.
Lani D. Right.
Jenny C. But once I started looking at it, it means something.
Lani D. Right.
Jenny C. Anyway, she basically moves from repressed anger and not fighting for what she deserves to Ohmigod, I’m a demigoddess.
Lani D. Well, the taser is basically telling her that he won’t be there to protect her should she need him.
Jenny C. Or descended from a demi-goddess.
Lani D. Potato, po-tah-to.
Jenny C. Yep.
Jenny C. And Sam will be.
Jenny C. So Daisy moves from repressing chaos to Ohmigod I’m a demi goddess.
Jenny C. Or descended from one.
Lani D. And she wants… what? The commitment?
Jenny C. Well, commitment would come with finishing.
Jenny C. It’s an end and a beginning and she’s that pivot point.
Jenny C. And tasering people finishes them.
Jenny C. I think I just need to let it work itself out.
Lani D. It does that.
Lani D. Yeah. It’ll come.
Lani D. For Daisy, I’m just going blank on that scene.
Jenny C. So in Daisy’s first scene she moves from repressing chaos to considering Jamie’s ideas on accepting Bailey’s/her nature, right.
Lani D. I know I want Tallie to be part of it.
Lani D. Right.
Lani D. And in the second scene, she relaxes, because she thinks she’s just drunk.
Jenny C. And in her second scene, she moves from “My dog is not talking” to “I am not almost coming on this guy’s back”?
Lani D. But when she wakes up the next day, she still has some of that chaos - she can’t put it back in the box.
Jenny C. So she moves from accepting chaos because it’s not real, it’s a drunken dream to . . . How does she change in that scene?
Jenny C. Scene Two.
Jenny C. I mean, she does.
Lani D. I think there’s got to be some struggle with the chaos, and some failure, that sets up her situation with Jamie later, where she gives in totally.
Jenny C. She’s a lot looser and more open-minded at the end.
Jenny C. Because she’s telling Bailey they’re going back to normal, but she’s having a conversation with her dog.
Lani D. She is, but she’s only allowing it because she thinks it’ll pass when she sobers up, that things will go back to the way they’ve always been.
Jenny C. And she rode piggyback.
Lani D. But in the morning, the chaos is still there.
Jenny C. Right, but she’s allowing it.
Jenny C. She’s moved that inch.
Lani D. Right. She thinks it’s temporary.
Lani D. Right, because it’s temporary. It’s one drunken night.
Jenny C. So she wakes up the next morning, and Bailey’s still talking and she has to get to work.
Lani D. But then she wakes up the next day, and the chaos is still there.
Lani D. But it’s not Jamie and Bailey - it’s coming from within.
Jenny C. So she has to move another inch.
Lani D. Right. She has to adjust.
Jenny C. She has to accept that her dog is talking to her, that there are things she can’t control, just this little bit, that Bailey talks?
Jenny C. And then she goes into work in the next beat, and she has that chaos effect on things?
Jenny C. Like the car alarm the night before?
Lani D. Yeah. All her pencils are broken.
Lani D. Everything’s coming apart.
Lani D. It’s not just that she can’t do the code… it’s that part of her doesn’t want to.
Lani D. That’ll be new.
Jenny C. At the end, does she get Shar’s message that they need to talk?
Lani D. Yes.
Jenny C. Is leaving work early something she would normally not do?
Jenny C. Say at four instead of five.
Lani D. Yes, leaving early is not Daisy’s style.
Lani D. But she’ll be so glad that she’s not alone in the weirdness that she’ll go.
Jenny C. So she hears Bailey talk, and she justifies that or makes an attempt to control it
Lani D. And then, after that turning point, she sees Jamie later that night and they get it on.
Jenny C. And then she gets to work, and chaos erupts around her and Tallie says, “It’s like you’re doing this but you’re not” or something.
Lani D. I think she’s going to send him down to Gracie, who takes care of him during the day.
Jenny C. And then the boss calls her in and it gets worse.
Jenny C. And then she gets Shar’s message and I think that’s when she’d take control.
Lani D. Right.
Jenny C. I have her right now leaving a message for Shar and Abby that says to meet her in the faculty room at four or whatever.
Jenny C. As another attempt to take control.
Lani D. Wait - Shar’s leaving the message for Daisy and Abby?
Lani D. Now I’m confused.
Jenny C. So your three beat is Bailey/Tallie/the boss or whatever/and then getting Shar’s message and taking control?
Lani D. Right.
Jenny C. Shar calls them both and says, “We need to talk. The Kool-aid had a strange effect on me” or whatever.
Lani D. Okay - what time does Shar call?
Jenny C. Daisy gets the message on her cell and calls the two of them and says, “I agree. The faculty lounge at four.” Shar leaves it openended, Daisy controls it.
Lani D. Okay - that works.
Jenny C. I had her calling around nine I think, because it’s before she leaves for campus.
Jenny C. But I figured Daisy and Abby wouldn’t answer because we don’t want them talking to each other yet.
Lani D. Okay. So I’ll have Daisy name the time and place.
Jenny C. Does that seem to fit what she’d do?
Lani D. Yes, I think Daisy would do that.
Jenny C. And then Abby would get the two messages and leave her messages which would be, “Whatever you want” because she needs to feed them/give them what they need.
Jenny C. So you really only need three scenes in Act One.
Jenny C. Unless you need another one with Jamie for some reason.
Lani D. Okay - does Abby’s scene come before Daisy’s?
Jenny C. That’s up to you and Krissie.
Lani D. No, the Jamie scene works after they make the discovery at the store room.
Lani D. That works well for me, actually.
Jenny C. Something we can work out in NYC probably with the post-its and the timelines.
Jenny C. So you’re good with three?
Lani D. I’m good.
Lani D. That works.
Jenny C. So I take the Daisy scene out of the Brand New Girls move?
Jenny C. Which is FINE with me.
Jenny C. Just trying to keep this straight in my head.
Lani D. Yeah, I think so.
Lani D. although I’m not sure my timeline is right in my head.
Jenny C. Daisy’s not going to be in a kitchen. Maybe we combine the kitchen chunk and the Brand New Girls chunk into one?
Lani D. Because Tuesday is the class - so Wednesday afternoon they’re in the storeroom?
Jenny C. Yes.
Jenny C. So far.
Lani D. Okay - that’s good then.
Jenny C. I don’t think they’d wait until Thursday, logically.
Lani D. I thought it was Thursday before class, but Wednesday’s good.
Lani D. I don’t think so either.
Lani D. And that works out perfectly for Daisy, actually.
Lani D. And her scene will be at work, but I’m still figuring that out.
Jenny C. I’m still trying to see the overall plan.
Jenny C. Which will change anyway, but you know.
Lani D. Yeah, but we need a place to jump from.
Jenny C. So all four POVs in the Goin To The Temple chunk.
Jenny C. Then the Three POVs in the After the Kool-Aid.
Jenny C. Then all four POVs in Brand New Girls, with Shar getting two scenes there. Is that okay?
Lani D. That’s fine.
Jenny C. Then the one scene in Hello, It’s Us, the TP scene.
Lani D. That’s also in Shar’s POV, right? Is that too much on you?
Jenny C. Because I think Kami’s scene is going to be in the next act although I’d like to get it written anyway.
Lani D. No, that’s good.
Jenny C. No, I’ve got all five of Shar’s scenes roughed in.
Jenny C. I’m fine.
Lani D. Okay, that’s good.
Jenny C. Maybe Kami’s scene does belong in that act because that’s where she talks the Three into accepting who they are.
Jenny C. And that sets them off on Act Two, where they go nuts with the powers.
Jenny C. I like that.
Jenny C. Kami’s POV scene with them as the TP?
Lani D. Yeah, that’s good.
Jenny C. So they really move from repressing their identities to embracing them to the fullest in this act.
Lani D. Does that work - because that’s a huge TP for them, not Kami. Should it be in one of their POVs, when Kami tells them?
Jenny C. And the scenes just show the increments of their change.
Jenny C. I don’t think so.
Jenny C. I think it’s Kami’s scene, because she’s seducing them over to her.
Jenny C. I think if we set up that character arc/change in the scenes
Jenny C. Then we know how they got to accepting her
Jenny C. And we have the whole second act to show them changing as they embrace their powers.
Lani D. Right.
Lani D. I think that’ll work.
Jenny C. The key in the first act is to set up why they reject her in the first scene and accept her in the last
Jenny C. And it’s because they’re changing slowly in the intervening scenes.
Jenny C. Their dogs talk.
Jenny C. They start to feel the rush of their powers.
Jenny C. People look at them differently.
Lani D. The way they used to do things don’t work anymore.
Jenny C. The act differently, start demanding what they deserve (Daisy takes off early, Shar turfs Ray).
Lani D. Does Dog hit on Shar in the first act?
Lani D. I’m looking forward to that scene.
Jenny C. I think it’s more that they LIKE the changes, the power is seducing them before Kami even gets to them.
Lani D. Right - there’s a rush, a freedom. They’re accepting their true natures.
Jenny C. That’s in the Brand New Girls chunk. It’s the scene where she meets Christy.
Jenny C. “He’ll never forget Ur” or whatever that line is.
Lani D. Oh, fun.
Jenny C. So she meets Christy, she sees Dog,and she sees Ray, and she gets stronger with each one.
Jenny C. Plus Sam and Wolfie are there.
Jenny C. It’s another crowd scene.
Lani D. It’ll be great.
Jenny C. I think I have an extra scene because I have that Shar vs. Wolfie scene where she goes to bed and dreams. I’m not sure if I need that scene.
Jenny C. It can stay for right now, but it takes her a long time to meet Sam.
Lani D. I don’t know. Leave it for now. We can work all that stuff out in the revision once we’ve got the first draft done.
Jenny C. I agree.
Lani D. Yeah, but there’s a lot to set up.
Lani D. I think we should write it all out now, and take away later.
Jenny C. Basically, they meet in the temple and get the Kool-aid,
Jenny C. Then they meet the guys
Jenny C. then they realize there’s something going on the next day
Jenny C. Then they go to the temple and Kami gets them.
Jenny C. So that’s a nice tight structure.
Lani D. Yep - nice, tight first act.
Lani D. 
Jenny C. First they meet and get the Kool-aid
Jenny C. Then the Kool-aid affects how they react to the men
Jenny C. Then it affects how everybody reacts to them.
Jenny C. Then they find out why.
Lani D. Good. I like it.
Jenny C. So what Krissie really needs in that Christopher scene is Abby reacting to the Kool-aid the way Daisy does
Jenny C. And that’s what I need in the Shar and Sam scene the next day.
Jenny C. The Kool-aid triggering the hunger in Abby and the need to finish in Shar.
Jenny C. You nailed it in your scene, we don’t have it in ours yet.
Jenny C. God I love structure.
Lani D. Yeah, showing how affected everyone is, the changes that are happening.
Jenny C. It makes things so clear.
Lani D. LOL I’ve never been a fan of structure, but it does make things so much clearer.
Jenny C. Kool-aid, kool-aid affecting them with guys, kool-aid activating powers that affect their normal worlds, finding out why.
Lani D. I’ve always just written and seen what happens.
Lani D. This is fun, though.
Jenny C. I do that a lot in the first draft.
Jenny C. But you really can’t do it in collaboration.
Jenny C. You need to hit the same marks.
Lani D. No, you really can’t.
Jenny C. I think we’ve still got a lot of freedom here, though.
Lani D. It’s great.
Lani D. Yeah, we do.
Jenny C. Although I do want the Three together more as the book progresses. I want them getting really close.
Lani D. Act Two is gonna be a blast. I’m so looking forward to that.
Jenny C. Sex and the City close.
Jenny C. I know. I am, too.
Lani D. Oh, yeah.
Jenny C. I feel SO GOOD about this.
Lani D. This is gonna be such a great book.
Lani D. I just love it.
Lani D. It’s so crunchy and great.
Jenny C. It all makes sense, the structure and the plot just seem to have that rhythm.
Lani D. I can’t wait for NYC. I’m so jazzed about that.
Lani D. They do. And I love the way we’re gelling together.
Jenny C. I know. It’s been so long since I’ve done anything for FUN.
Jenny C. And that’s going to be fun.
Lani D. It is. I’m so excited.
Jenny C. When I wrote Bet Me, I wrote “Wildly Romantic” on a post-in and put it on my computer to tell myself to just go for it.
Jenny C. I think now I have to remind myself that life is supposed to be fun.
Lani D. LOL, I talked about Bet Me in the podcast this week. We were discussing epilogues.
Jenny C. I love my work, it should be a good time. Most of the time.
Lani D. Right.
Lani D. It is supposed to be fun.
Jenny C. THAT’S NOT AN EPILOGUE.
Jenny C. Jeez.
Lani D. That’s what I go to whenever I’m stuck.
Lani D. LOL.
Lani D. We had a whole big discussion about prologues and epilogues.
Lani D. It’s an epilogue, isn’t it?
Lani D. LOL
Then Jenny beat me senseless and then . . .
Lani D. I’m very vague with setting, I want to get into that more.
Jenny C. I need to be more careful of it.
Lani D. Careful?
Jenny C. It’s always the last thing I do, but Shar’s house in particular and that temple, we really need to nail that down.
Jenny C. Well, I tend to say, “They’re in a temple.” And then if I need an altar, I say, “There’s an altar.”
Jenny C. I miss the “significant detail bit.
Jenny C. Like Shar would have noticed those electric tiki torches.
Jenny C. Of course, she’d have noticed them when she came in
Jenny C. But the stuff she notices will be the stuff that characterizes her.
Lani D. Yeah, and we’re not in her POV when she comes in.
Jenny C. Like Daisy might notice that the chairs are arranged logically
Lani D. Right.
Lani D. Exactly the kind of thing Daisy would notice.
Jenny C. And Shar would notice that the table the Kool-aid was on was a horned altar.
Lani D. It takes a while to get that detail down, though.
Lani D. That’s second draft detail, I think.
Jenny C. Yep.
Jenny C. Can always do it in the rewrite.
Jenny C. So much of this is going to change after the first draft
Lani D. Right. Once we get the story down, we can put that stuff in.
Jenny C. But the more I can get it on the page for you and Krissie now, the more you have to go on.
Lani D. Yes, and then you can focus on AKMG.
Jenny C. Like Shar’s house is all Arts and Crafts, I know that but I haven’t gotten on the page yet.
Jenny C. I can SEE this house.
Jenny C. Yep.
Lani D. It’ll be there.
Lani D. We’ll get there.
Jenny C. I’m figuring on getting Shar and Kami both done (big plans) and by then, I’ll have most of the AKMG collage done and it should be strong in my head.
Jenny C. I love the music for AKMG.
Jenny C. But I still don’t have Shar’s theme for D&G.
Lani D. It’ll come.
And then we talked about collage . . .
Jenny C. I want to do one for D&G, too. But not yet.
Jenny C. Funny, the process is reversed on that.
Lani D. It’s such a strange and amazing process.
Jenny C. I need the scissors and glue collage on the solo book before I start serious writing.
Lani D. Well, D&G is unusual.
Jenny C. But on the collabs, it comes after.
Lani D. The collaboration, I find I’m doing things differently.
Jenny C. I think maybe it’s because I need to absorb your visions of the book, too.
Lani D. Yeah, we all contribute.
Jenny C. Which I’ve pretty much got, I think.
Jenny C. I LOVED what you did with Daisy’s dialogue in the temple scene.
Jenny C. Hysterical and so Daisy, it was perfect.
Lani D. Oh, good.
Lani D. You had her down really well.
Lani D. Just little touches.
Jenny C. I can’t believe how much that tightened and brightened the scene, too.
Jenny C. Daisy doesn’t sound like a Crusie character now, she’s just so you. It’s so so good.
Lani D. It’s really fun having them all in a room together. I love it.
Jenny C. It gives that scene dimension.
Jenny C. I think we need a lot of those.
Lani D. It’s like having us three in a room.
Jenny C. That’s where a lot of the juice comes from.
Lani D. I love those scenes.
Jenny C. YES.
Jenny C. With Abby saying “Isn’t it a beautiful day? Have a cookie.”
Jenny C. And Daisy trying to organize the papers.
Lani D. I loved the cookie thing.
Lani D. OMG.
Jenny C. And Shar trying to research.
Lani D. It was great.
Jenny C. “Wait, let me read one more book on Mesopotamia.â€
Jenny C. It’s so us.
Lani D. I love how they are.
Jenny C. Hey, I bought a National Geographic from 1911 or some time in there.
Lani D. I’m looking forward to the rescue scenes.
Jenny C. It has pictures in it of a dig.
Lani D. OMG - no way!
Lani D. Very cool.
Jenny C. I’m thinking maybe that’s when Grandpa met Grandma.
Jenny C. We can use the pix from National Geo. Wouldn’t that be terrific?
Lani D. Oh, so not so many generations back?
Jenny C. I think it’s easier, don’t you?
Jenny C. It’s still a hundred years.
Lani D. That is cool. I love National Geo. Did I tell you my MIL was an editor there for 30 years? That blows my mind, still.
Lani D. I think it makes Mina make more sense.
Jenny C. So it’d be Shar’s great-grandpa.
Lani D. Also, it’s less dilution of the royal blood.
Jenny C. Yep.
Jenny C. Much better.
Jenny C. I think it makes Mina make more sense, too.
Jenny C. Plus it’s so much easier to say Great-Grandpa.
Lani D. I like it being closer.
Lani D. Yes, much easier.
Jenny C. I do, too. I’ll bring the Nat’l Geo to NYC.
Lani D. Oooh, great.
Jenny C. So we’re good.
Jenny C. You’ve got two of your three scenes done.
Jenny C. You’re in great shape.
Lani D. Yeah, I still need to think a bit on the third one, what I really want Daisy to get out of that scene, but it’ll be good.
Lani D. Once I’ve got it, it doesn’t take long to write.
Jenny C. You know, if we get the whole first act done, we should read it to each other one night. Just power through the whole act and give each other comments as we go.
Lani D. Oh, that’d be fun!
Jenny C. Do you mind if I do an outline of the finished act, analyzing the scenes for beats when we’re done?
Jenny C. Or is that too intrusive?
Lani D. Oh, not at all. Thank you.
Lani D. No that’s fine. If something doesn’t work for me, I’ll speak up.
Jenny C. It helps me keep it straight.
Jenny C. Thank you.
Lani D. But right now, I feel pretty comfortable with what we’ve got.
Jenny C. I am, too.
Lani D. And you’ve got a lot of organizing with two POVs and the bulk of the scenes, so do what helps you.
Jenny C. I think it gets the book set-up while moving the plot and arcing character which is all you can ask for.
Lani D. I find it really helpful, too, but my mind doesn’t work well with structure yet - it helps to have you organize this way.
Lani D. No, it’s great.
Jenny C. The only thing I need to do is figure out how to mention Milki in there. But I think I can do that with the bas relief, even though I’m cutting most of it.
Lani D. When you lay it all out, I get so much clarity on it.
Jenny C. Well, tell me to back off if I get too controlling.
Jenny C. I know how shy you are.
Lani D. I will.
Lani D. I am. I’m very demure.
Lani D. But I’ll struggle through.
Jenny C. Just like Krissie.
Lani D. We are tender souls.
Lani D. No, it’s all working really well for me.
And then we talked about AKMG and Liv’s Book (my next book, which stars a character named Liv) and a book Jenny wants to do with a previous character . . .
Lani D. (About Liv’s book) Yeah, it’s coming together nicely.
Jenny C. That’s when you know you’re on the right track.
Lani D. I’m just accepting the pieces as they come, rather than beating myself up and forcing it.
Lani D. It’s glorious.
Lani D. I feel like Daisy, not fighting myself anymore.
Jenny C. I KNOW. I do, too.
Lani D. It’s such a wonderful, sudden release. Ahhhhh….
Lani D. Once you accept who you are, it’s amazing.
Lani D. Been fighting it so long.
Jenny C. whenever anybody says, “Ghosts?” or rolls their eyes about D&G, I don’t even care any more. I’m so happy and I know I’m doing the righ thing.
Lani D. That’s part of why I love D&G so much, I want to write the hell out of that.
Lani D. It’s been such a blast for me.
Jenny C. We are lucky, lucky women.
Lani D. We are!
Jenny C. And now ‘m going to go make raisin-chocolate-chip cookies and then take a hot soaky bath.
Lani D. Life is good.
Jenny C. Because I deserve it.
Jenny C. So do you.
Lani D. Oooh, sounds good.
Lani D. Me, I’m off to bed.
Lani D.
Jenny C. Have a good night babe.
Lani D. g’night!
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Ok, I got stuck on broken pencils for a computer programmer. I know some programmers who keep pencils, but very few. I think it would be code that would spontaneously break. And maybe she could still fix it, but maybe you can have it break in wonderful ways. Like her screen is now always purple with big daisies on it. And any code that she looks at to try to fix breaks even more in a strange way: Radio buttons turn from little round things to Daisies with faces; the website wants to tell people classes are cancelled in favor of a pool party; every sentence on the website turns a different color - that kind of thing. Broken pencils? not so much.
(Although whenever I type something out, I usually print it out in hardcopy to proof it, computer programmers generally compile it or (I don’t know what the term is for previewing a new web page) and let the computer display the errors, then the go back and screen the code themselves. I rarely see them use pencils. My good friend is a quality assurance engineer for a software firm - it’s her group’s job to both find and either fix or allocate resources to fix all the software bugs that pop up when new code is written. I don’t think she’s used paper at work in 8 years.
I was listening to my Tea Party cd(either Edges of Twilight or Tangents) the other night and Sister Awake with its near eastern rhythm and instuments made me think of this blog, particularly of Shar.
I’m learning a lot about the craft of writing over here. You never stop being a teacher. My dad is the same way and he retired almost ten years ago.
You guys are really good typists. My chats never look that good.
They are also never that interesting or that confusing.
Now I have to go write a scene with a lawyer and a homebuyer, and I don’t know what’s going to happen. Upside: 25 pages from now, I’m burning that sucker down!
You really are a brave and generous teacher. When do you breathe?
Ooooh, Lou. Interesting and confusing. I love that. Can I use it in a header? LOL. Dogs and Goddesses: Interesting and Confusing.
Sheryl - I’m interested in that Tea Party cd. Is it available on iTunes? I haven’t bought an actual cd in YEARS. I’m terrible. Total iTunes addict.
Cranky - Daisy’s into pencils. She likes them because if you make a mistake, you can erase. I love that detail, though, that no one working with computers ever uses them. I hadn’t really thought about that, but you’re right. And yet, she has them everywhere, uses them to hold up her hair and for… what else? What other unusual uses could Daisy have for pencils? I just love this detail, because Daisy’s always so afraid of making mistakes, that she surrounds herself with the only writing implement with an eraser, and she can’t use it. That works so great for me - I love it!
So - what else can Daisy use her pencils for? And it’s so sad and telling about me that I have the instinct here to say, “Not THAT.” If you were married to Fish, you’d knee-jerk to dirty, too.
Oh, hell. Knee-jerk to dirty. That sounds awful, too.
So. Mesopotamia…
Pencils. Go!
Oh, and regarding Jenny and the teaching - she is amazing, isn’t she? The most generous person with her time and knowledge I’ve ever had the pleasure to know. Keep saying nice things about Jenny here, too. Makes me happy to see people appreciating her.
Yes, so many people appreciate my teaching. Which is why the “Jenny, butt out” buttons are so popular.
Daisy has pencils and post-it notes so she can make lists. She likes the ruled post-its because her lists are neater on those.
Also, at heart she’s an old-fashioned girl. Pencils. They’re fab.
My take on the taser: taser=phallus. Why would Ray give Shar a phallus that’s bigger than his own? Shar thinks, “Weenie Ray.” Then Shar zaps Sam with the taser as taser, but then thinks, “Oooh, I’ve got one, too. And it works!”
GP, you may be overthinking this.
Sometimes a taser is just a taser.
Okay, in this case, probably not, but really, it’s not a penis.
Okay, so in TUMF-land, I’m Mare, a rebellious queen of the universe. In D&G land, I’m Daisy - ruled post-its and pencils, trying to keep everything under control when I really just want to let go. [I use my pencil as a pointer when trying to assist my boss in navigating a website, etc. I used to use them to twit someone upside the head (one job back).]
What if Daisy does crossword puzzles or sudoku, or something like that? All of those people who think they’re SO SMART (what, me, bitter?) use pen for those things, but Daisy would probably want the control of being able to erase until it was perfect. I know I do. Plus, pencils ARE fab. (Favorite line from “You’ve Got Mail”: “If I knew your address, I would send you a boquet of newly sharpened pencils.” If I can find a guy to do that, I’ll be sunk. But I digress.)
Okay, I’m sure it stands for something more logical, but, right now, all that’s coming to me when you talk about the “TP scene” is “toilet paper.” It’s been a long day.
Oh, and the other day, I was listening to this song, “The Birds and the Bees,” by Patrick & Eugene, and it made me think of the Daisy/Jamie piggyback scene. It’s very bouncy and retro-kind of along the lines of “Concrete and Clay,” now that I think about it. And, yes, it is on Itunes. How did we ever survive before Itunes.?
Yeah, but I find phallic symbolism in lots of things - football, golf, basketball. But not in sewing or kneading dough or cutting out paperdolls.
And I use erasers and pencils to design systems. Also write code, though not so much any more.
TP = Turning Point, Courtney. And if you think you’re having problems, I used to work at a school with a Broadcast Journalism department. And thanks for the “Birds and the Bees” suggestion. The whole soundtrack is very retro - I’ll look it up.
And yes, a moment of silence for the poor bastards who lived and died before iTunes.
Jenny, you are brilliant and generous. The correct response when someone points this out is, “Thank you.”
Gator - Hmmm. Taser as phallus. I hadn’t thought of that. But I think mostly, Ray’s just a tool.
As for pencils - I like the ideas. I think pencils and post-its are Daisy’s comfort items, like Linus’s blue blanket. I don’t know that she’d always write with the pencils. She puts them in her hair, she uses them to point (good call, Cary) and other stuff of that nature. Drumsticks to work out nervous energy. Occasionally she’ll write with them, but more often than not, she just likes having them around. Comfort. Hmmm…
Lani, my boss is a chronic pencil user, and he’s also a chronic doodler. (I’m a pen girl myself - they move more quickly, pencils are more deliberate.) I can see someone that is always concerned with neatness and order doodling little boxes in the margins of her notebook/paper while she’s on conference calls or in meetings at work. Orderly squares, all lined up in a row, and when she fills the whole margin, she starts coloring every other one in. If she messes up her pattern, she has an eraser to fix her mistake.
Oh! And to show that she’s moving away from her old behavior patterns, at some point she could look down and realize she’s been doodling something organic and wild, like flowers or swirlies. That’d be a shock. Ten years of squares, and now all of a sudden there’s flowers?
And this comment is much too long, so I’ll stop now.
Thank you.
Poor Ray.
I love pencils, but they’re exotic. I write with pens so when I pick up a pencil and there’s that gorgeous gray line, soft and varied, it’s a real experience. So I could see Daisy’s passion for pencils as part of her chaos seeping out from under the repression: Pens have that crisp even line and computers are perfect, but pencils, that gorgeous organic line, pencils are chaos.
I like the idea of her drumming them when she’s thinking. Pencils make a great drumming noise.
Good idea Carlyle re the doodling daisy thing - that’s blow neat ordered mind.
Okay - must proof read.
That’d blow her neat ordered mind.
You’re welcome. Smooch.
Ooooh, I’m so glad we posted this chat. The nature of pencils as symbolism. You’re all right - pencils are chaos. They have this lovely organicness to them, made of natural materials. They are Daisy - they pretend to be organized, but in reality are chaos. I love the pencil thing!
Caryle - I love the organic doodles!!! That actually fits in really well to a scene I’m doing right now - great idea!
I was wondering how Shar had telephone numbers for Daisy and Abby. Obviously this could be something that happened in scenes that I’ve not seen yet, but I thought I’d mention it just in case.
Kami gives the three of them a paper at the end of scene one:
I must have missed that, distracted by the Kool-aid
The Kool-aid has that effect on everyone.
But it’s a good point, Maybe I can hit that bit harder in the rewrite. Thank you!
I’m not sure you need to do that, Jenny. It’s probably just that because we’re only getting the scenes days or weeks apart, and not necessarily in the final order, it’s much easier for us (i.e. readers of the blog) to forget things or to miss the significance of the end of scenes as we busily scroll down to the comments.
Not to sound bitter or belabor a point but I have no idea what is available on iTunes it iHates me. I do own it so I’ll send it to you. if that’s not iIllegal. Smooch.
With apologies to Sheryl, (iTunes iHates you? That’s just wrong.) I found a song that is made for you guys while browsing around iTunes: “The Mesopotamians,” by They Might Be Giants. The chorus is: “We’re the Mesopotamians: Sargon, Hammurabi, Ashurbanipal and Gilgamesh…”
Then, just for the heck of it, I typed “Mesopotamia” in the search field and got a list of 55 items, including some traditional music, documentaries, podcasts, a lesson plan (!) and a various musical odes to Mess O’Potamia(sorry, just watched “The Daily Show”). My personal favorite is “Mesopotamian,” by Greens Keepers. Kind of reminds me of Sam.
Oh, honey, of COURSE Chaos works for Life. Have the snafus with CherryForums taught you nothing? They’re partners. Hand in hand.
WBS - no Life without Chaos
I’ve worked in IT for years and I always see pencils around - sort of a throwback to the pocket protector geek thing, if you will, but a lot of programmers use them to comment hard copies of code tree diagrams before the code is actually programmed. Better than whiteboarding once they’ve gotten to that stage of the design.
And “the stuff she notices will be the stuff that characterizes her.” THANK YOU for this. Exactly what I needed to see.
Does not pay to be gone from this blog for very long. Looks like the dogs (and the Forums IT people) drank Koolaid and all turned to stone.
I could see Daisy branching out with colored pencils–good quailty art pencils and when you buy them in a box, there are all of these colors to choose from –it’s like inviting chaos into your world because that act of having that many colors to play with changes perspective on everything. Oh, and there are these wonder art erasers which do much better than the pencil erasers. I’d always used the pencil erasers ’til I discovered them and they were kinda like magic. (I am such an art supply geek.)
From what I read on Shar and Ray and the taser, I always thought Shar was angry because the meta message from Shar was twofold: you’re not worth mytime for me to stay here and you’re only worth this littls stun gun, should someone get close enough for you to have to use it. It’s a clinical offer on his part, communicating that her problems are not his problems and he’s making a token effort to solve it in the way he can be least involved without looking like a complete jerk and ignoring her. He also could just be a man about it and tell her it wasn’t working out and he wasn’t interested, and so he’s also not giving her the words she values… the myth, even a tragic myth, has words or pictures and Ray is short-changing it all by doing the least amount he can do. This says he never was in love with her, that she’d deluded herself, and she’s suddenly in the anger stage of the stages of grief.
I rode on a plane yesterday and a woman who is a proces engineer for a major chemical plant was talking about how hard it was to get people to make changes and that the’ll watch them go through the five stages of grief, even if it’s over something minor, like having to do a process differently. Thre’s denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Shar’s coming out of the denial stage and is in the anger stage about it, because she’s losing something that had seemed a real potential at one time.
Must remember to thank posting author goddesses more often. I’m laughing a lot at the scenes so far. I love hearing a sharp voice in my head saying “drink your Kool-aid”. I’m truly having a great time reading about this process. Which make sense because I’m a process engineer (for a not-so-major semiconductor fab). I’m now going to be watching all my colleagues for signs of grief over process changes!
I didn’t mean to come down hard on pencils. I love pencils. I used to use one to keep my bun in place when I had long hair in college. I keep one in my car to record gas consumption and mileage because a pen would just overheat and the ink would either drip out or dry up. So I keep a mechanical pencil in there - always sharp, always writes in any weather. We used to get pencil awards on the Math team. I have a full set of drafting pencils from 6B to 6H and a couple of wonking huge charcoal type pencils. I like to use them to draw 3D shapes and shade them which didn’t sound idiotic until I just now typed it. I can’t use them at work because they aren’t clean for a cleanroom, but I do use them or a red pen when I proofread things on paper at home. (My first comment has some huge errors that could use proofing like missing an end parenthesis.) I have a pencil next to my computer now.
But what can Daisy do with pencils? Proof reading, note taking, sharpen them, keep them point up in a pretty jar (like the bouquet someone mentioned - which reminded me of the best line in Stranger than Fiction: “I brought you flours.” for a baker). Puzzles, check. Maybe she’d have a pencil box. I saw the loveliest little pencil box at Border’s yesterday that reminded me of TUMF only in pink but $20 was too much for an impulse buy for something I don’t need but still covet. Oh, right. YOUR blog. sigh. I ramble when I’m sleepy. Keep up the good work.
(-: Jenny, I love that “chaos of pencils” riff — pure poetry, and I know just what you mean.
I am drawing a blank on alternative pencil use. Is it possible Daisy has a hobby that uses pencils? She could make a pen holder by gluing a bunch of pencils to a tin can. Or use them as super-challenging Lincoln Logs. Or maybe as the cue sticks to a miniature pool table. You can also put a wad of gum on the end of a pencil, and use it to fish something out of a grate. If the hole is short.
Sorry, not good answers. (-: That’s what I get for playing on the computer at three in the morning.